Experiencing Diabetes Burnout? Creating Coping Strategies with Laura Pavlakovich

0:00
Welcome back to another episode of the Diabetes Digital Podcast.

We are thrilled to have a guest on with us this week.

We have Laura Pavlovich, who has been living with type one diabetes since childhood.

She’s the founder of You’re Just My Type, which started as a photo project to showcase people from all over the world with type one diabetes living healthy and fulfilling lives.

0:23
As a community has grown, the platform has branched out to include in person events with the goal of providing support, education and resources.

Laura’s commitment to breaking down stigmas and creating safe spaces has become her life’s purpose, and she will go to great lengths to make sure that no one with type one diabetes ever feels alone.

0:43
Yes, and we’re partnering with Laura to host her first ever virtual event on June 27th at 3:00 PM PST, 6:00 PM EST.

You are all invited.

We are going to talk about the intersections of diabetes and disordered eating.

1:02
So it’s going to be a great conversation.

It’s free to attend, so come if you are struggling with this or if you are just curious to learn more about it or you have a family or friend who has diabetes and also you’re noticing some disordered eating practices, please share with them.

1:19
Even if you can’t attend, that’s fine.

You can register at diabetesdigital.co/event and we will send you a replay.

In this episode, we are going to chat with Laura about living with type one since childhood, a little bit more about her story and some of the ups and downs of living with diabetes.

1:36
And we really want to focus today on mental health and diabetes burnout because that’s a lot of the work that Laura does and just getting her perspective on things.

As someone who lives with type one, what are some tools that she uses to help with her mental health?

Also, how does she maintain a healthy relationship with food with type one diabetes given the dietary constraints and all the constant monitoring it requires?

2:00
We’re going to talk a little bit about the fears of lows and any tips for managing that fear of hypoglycemia and so much more.

Welcome to the Diabetes, the podcast.

I’m Wendy.

And I’m Jess, and we’re best friends, registered dietitians and diabetes educators.

2:16
Through our telehealth platform, Diabetesdigital.co, we offer accessible and personalized virtual nutrition counseling for people with diabetes and pre diabetes.

Visit diabetesdigital.co that’s Co to book your first appointment.

We accept insurance and offer affordable self pay options.

2:32
Now let’s get into today’s episode.

So we can’t wait to jump into this conversation.

Welcome to the podcast, Laura.

Hi, thank you for having me.

So excited to have you on and just mentioned mental health.

2:48
And I’m sure as a child being diagnosed so early on with type one, that really could take a toll on someone not really understanding what might be going on.

So I’m wondering like, how was your mental health impacted as a child finding out that you had type one diabetes?

3:06
I was diagnosed at such a young age that I truly don’t remember life before diagnosis.

So I think at this time in my life, I was diagnosed around age 4 and I’m 32 now.

So I think the toll that it took on me is now hitting me in ways that I couldn’t even have imagined back then.

3:26
But I was so young.

It’s just like I went to the doctor, got my diagnosis, and the next day I had type one diabetes and I started living my life differently.

But because I was so young, I have nothing to compare it to.

What did your parents like?

Were they seeing some behaviors?

3:42
Like what was it that prompted them at such a young age to get you checked out?

So my parents didn’t have any information about type one diabetes.

They didn’t know anyone with it.

But my mom tells me that I would walk to preschool with her in the mornings and suddenly I was too weak to go on the walk.

3:58
And she’s like, this is really strange.

I don’t know why there was a hill that we would go up and she’s like, you couldn’t get up the hill on your own anymore.

So that was one of the first signs, symptoms that she noticed.

And then like most type 1 diabetics, we have pretty textbook symptoms.

It was frequent urination.

I started wetting the bed again at age 4.

4:14
So I had already gone past that phase of learning not to do that.

So that’s another sign that sparked their attention.

And the constant thirst was huge.

So my mom said she took me to my pediatrician who had, I mean, looking back and telling the story now we have these devices that you can tell your blood sugar in five seconds.

4:34
And my doctor had never had to do that before.

So she did a fasting.

She wanted to do a fasting glucose with me.

So she sent me home.

And my mom said she couldn’t give me water or food for 12 hours.

And I was screaming for water because when you think about it, my blood sugar was so high and I was so thirsty.

4:55
And she was like, I had to do what the doctor said.

And she thought, Oh my God, it’s like trash.

She gets very emotional telling it, but she’s like, I couldn’t let you have these things.

And we went back to the doctor the next day, she did a blood test.

We got the results and she came out and it was this very dramatic.

5:10
She said don’t go home, go straight to Children’s Hospital.

There’s a team of specialists waiting for you.

Laura has type one diabetes and I remember the feeling in the room but of course I had no idea what it meant and we went straight to Children’s Hospital and that’s when I started getting training.

5:30
Oh my goodness.

And also to just first of all, that sounds so traumatic and then the no water doesn’t even make any sense for fast.

Like that’s not necessary to fast to not drink water.

So I’m just like, Oh my God, people are really making other folks suffer for no reason.

5:47
I’m sorry.

OK, so one thing I hear from people with diabetes a lot, and I’ve even seen you talk about this a little bit because it seems like you’re very candid on your Instagram stories kind of what you’re going through, like what your blood sugars are, but this fear of being low and how that can affect people.

6:05
So can you talk a little bit about the fear of hypoglycemia as somebody who has lived with type one for so long?

Like do you still have that fear and like how do you navigate it of?

Course, so I’m in a really bad category where my fear for being high is just as bad as my fear of going low.

6:25
So I do meet a ton of type 1 diabetics who just typically they’re very comfortable staying higher, which is totally fine in order for them not to draw.

But I make really sudden decisions to like if I start going low just a little bit like diagonal arrow down, my brain gets so scared that any second I’m going to see those double arrows.

6:47
So I will over treat very quickly.

But then when that happens, my blood sugar goes really high and then I get too much insulin because I’m like, oh crap, I ate too much.

Now I have to fix this and it causes a lot of physical roller coasters and mental roller coasters.

7:05
But to be told you have or to have a disease where you know insulin, if you take too much insulin, you can die, and if you take too little insulin, you can die.

And it’s a very fine line of how to find that healthy balance.

7:22
For sure.

The technology we have now is so amazing.

But before I was diagnosed in the 90s, we didn’t have CGMS.

We didn’t, we just we had insulin pumps.

But CGMS have really changed everything because before that I didn’t feel my lows.

I’ve had seven seizures from low blood sugars in my sleep.

7:41
They were all in my sleep because I would over treat and go to bed.

I’m lucky to be here.

But now with the technology and all the advancements we’ve made, I have my trusty CGM that can warn me, but it’s really scary.

Yeah.

Do you have strategies for preventing the large fluctuations where maybe it’s going too high or going too low?

8:03
Like does meal regularity help?

Or like what other things might be helpful for that?

Totally, exercise is key in my life.

I’m just speaking from personal experience but when I exercise in the morning and go on long walks that really helps me throughout the day with insulin resistance and sensitivity.

8:21
I try not to be too boring with my food but I have found what works for me which is I eat pretty low carb.

Trust me I have a sweet tooth and I indulge often.

But for the my baseline is pretty high protein low carb meals.

The least amount of variables for me the easier to maintain that and I think just trusting your body because I know I just praise CGMS but also they it can be data overload.

8:45
So I think it’s really hard to forget that if we eat the amount of sugar that we need and we’re all told as type ones, 15 grams of sugar every 15 minutes to treat your low blood sugars.

And it’s really hard when you’re feeling like you’re going to pass out if you don’t eat more.

But the truth is those 15 grams should work.

9:03
Obviously there’s different variables there, but I think like eating a little bit and knowing just to wait and just trust that like your body will do the work that it needs if you have treated correctly.

And like be patient because with all of these arrows and data that’s coming onto our phones every minute, it’s really easy to try to think ahead.

9:23
And that’s not always helping.

And that’s not helping me definitely.

So I think just like pausing and being like I did what I need to do.

Let me give myself a minute.

It’s hard not to just be like go, go, go because diabetics were so used to just like dropping into the 50s and going super low and be like, well, I have to get on this meeting, so let me just eat a lot now.

9:42
And it, I think, just like remembering to pause, remembering to wait, and like giving my body enough time to do what it needs to do.

Yeah, I can’t even imagine how scary that would be because even me, like I don’t have diabetes, but even when it feels like my blood sugar is going low and it’s not because I’ve tried a CGM before and I’m like, Oh my God, I thought my blood sugar was like what, at 40?

10:04
And it’s like, girl, you’re at, I don’t know, 70, you’re fine.

But it feels like really intense.

I can’t imagine also having that fear of like something could go wrong and then you want to over correct.

I would be in the same panic.

It’s the hardest thing ever, especially at night.

10:21
The night time lows are really scary for me because during the day at least you can like sit down, you’re already awake, you can eat what you need to and wait.

But when you’re sleeping and like woken up abruptly, like half asleep, and then you have to eat to wait for your blood sugar to come up and like you can’t go back to sleep while you’re doing that.

10:37
So you’re basically laying there like forcing yourself to stay awake, but you’re also feeling like your eyes get droopy.

And it’s that part is really scary.

I wanted to touch on too.

I, I recently I’ve been having some pretty bad overnight lows and I’ve been really tired every day.

10:53
And I don’t know why I didn’t make the connection between my blood sugars and what’s happening.

And I just had an endocrinology appointment this week, and I was like, I don’t know what I’m going through mentally, but these last two weeks I’ve been more tired than I’ve ever been in my life.

And she very kindly reminded me that when you go low, your brain is like starving for oxygen.

11:15
And she’s like, you’re going nights where for seven hours your blood Sugar’s low and then you wake up and drink your coffee and think you can have a normal day.

And I never, I think maybe because I’ve had type one for so long, I don’t wake up and I’m like, oh, I must be tired because of my lows.

Like it’s so a part of my daily life that I’m like, what is going on?

11:31
Why am I tired all the time?

And I just don’t even think about what that does to your brain chemistry to go up and down like that.

Oh my goodness.

Well, thank you for sharing this.

And I also think people, not that they’re going to find comfort in like knowing you have lows, but just comfort in the fact that like it takes time and you can have diabetes for over 2 decades and you’re still kind of figuring it out.

11:57
And like, I think there’s like this kind of perfectionism mindset that it’s always going to be perfect.

And if it’s not, then you’re a failure.

But it even is someone from the outside looking in from a health professional perspective who’s like taking so many courses and all the things I’m still like, this is such a complex disease.

12:13
It seems very hard to to manage and I’m just in awe of people who are diagnosed and able, like parents or kids or adults able to own it, navigate it because it’s it’s a lot.

It is, I think to having it for so long.

There’s so many pros and cons to having it for so long.

12:31
But one of the cons is that I forget the basics.

Like I will straight up forget like the normal rules.

And sometimes I tell myself I’m like, should I Google like how to have like what do you do if you have type one diabetes?

Because I, I think when you’re diagnosed now as an adult, you can go on to Google.

12:48
There’s so much information you can get up to date with all the technology and I can be so not necessarily stuck in my ways, but the information I was given is so outdated and that’s what’s ingrained in me.

So it’s hard to get out of that.

And even though I hear the new information every day, like it’s hard to retrain my brain and do things differently when I’m sure there are easier ways now that people who are newly diagnosed can adapt you quicker.

13:13
Yeah, that makes total sense.

And I’m sure it also really impacts your relationship to food because you have to think about insulin coverage and not going too low, and it can become a bit mechanical.

So have you thought about that?

13:28
Like what are some ways that you can develop a healthier relationship to food, a more enjoyable relationship to food?

So it doesn’t feel like so much brain work.

I wish I had the answer to this, but this is something I struggle with so much personally.

Yeah, it’s a disease where people think you cannot eat certain things when in reality you have to eat certain things, especially when you’re low.

13:51
And often I think about how this does so much goes into this disease, but a huge chunk of it is food, and it’s every plate that you look at starts looking like a number.

All the plates at restaurants that everyone else is looking at turns into a number.

And it’s really hard to not view food that way and find a way to just simply enjoy it.

14:13
But I think once you you find the things that work for you, like doing the walks or if you find something that works for you a certain way, once I find that good thing, once I find that oatmeal that I can eat that I know how to bolus for, for the most part, I love to stick to things like that because at least I have some control over doing that.

14:29
And I think also being OK with being scared because I don’t think my fear will go away that revolts around food.

But it’s I refuse to live a life where I’m not going to eat the things that I want to eat because I’m letting fear take over.

So I don’t know if it will go away, but I think I can quiet it where there’s enough.

14:47
I can, you can Google Now like you can go to a restaurant.

Of course, you don’t have the nutrition, but you can Google enough things that can give you an idea.

But it’s really exciting when you do eat outside of your comfort zone and you like nail that bolus and blood sugar.

That just happened to me on Sunday.

I went to brunch with a friend and I, I typically play it safe, but we got pancakes with granola and honey and fruit and a breakfast burrito with potatoes in it and like a tartit, like a smoked salmon tartit on bread.

15:13
And those are all the things that I tend to just feel like, you know what, it’s not worth it.

And I did it and it was so worth it.

And 7 1/2 units for that meal and I spaced it out and I think I just felt lucky.

But like having those of like, I was so happy that I didn’t deprive myself of that because it is, it is so doable.

15:30
So I think it’s just trusting yourself and knowing that if you do make a wrong decision, then there there are ways to correct that too.

So back to the patients of like, if you go higher after something you eat, you can take more insulin.

It’s OK.

There’s nothing wrong with having to get more.

And if you take too much like treat and I think just not blowing those situations out of proportion and not being too scared to do those.

15:52
Yeah, that’s very, very helpful.

Can you talk about the effect that diabetes has had on your mental?

Health.

Sure, I think this disease takes more of a mental toll on me than a physical toll and diabetes burnout is something I recently came to terms with.

16:10
I wonder and this is an answer I’m never going to get, so I should probably let it go.

But because of diabetes, I, I have to be such an over preparer, an over planner, which turns me into an overthinker.

I’m like so anal when it comes to certain things.

And I’m always like, I wonder if that would be my natural personality if I hadn’t had this disease my whole life.

16:30
And then I can like kind of spiral where I’m like, because I’m not like that in other areas, but I see it happening a lot.

But it’s just, you know, it’s such an invisible disease, which is why I started my charity because there’s just no information about.

So even if you tell someone like, Hey, can you give me a second?

16:46
I’m type one.

They they don’t know what that means.

On the positive side, what it’s done for my mental health is it’s made me an over preparer.

It’s made me an over planner.

I think it’s caused me to have a lot of empathy for people.

And when you live with something that you can’t see, I think it’s very obvious that so can so many others.

17:06
So there’s no one I look at where I’m like, they don’t have anything.

They’re not going through something because no one would really think that about me.

Yeah, that’s a really good point.

Especially like just the invisibleness of it all.

And it’s something that I’m sure, and we hear from people, patients, other guests on the pod or people who’ve been on their pod about diabetes, people have a lot of unsolicited comments and unsolicited advice.

17:33
And it’s like, oh God, how do you navigate that?

It’s so tough.

You know, I want to start by saying it’s not always their fault.

And I I really, really have to give people the benefit of the doubt because when you look at the media and you look at movies and TV shows that portray type one diabetes, they have it all wrong.

17:53
So there’s no way you can blame someone for having this false idea about diabetes when that’s all they’ve ever seen about it.

Even a lot of commercials for type 2 medications just say the word diabetes.

So I give them the the benefit of the doubt.

I really do try, but it’s tough.

I used to work at a restaurant and we had big desserts.

18:09
It was like an Irish bar, and I can’t even tell you the amount of times I sat down a dessert and someone at the table made a diabetes comment, said they were going to get diabetes after eating it.

And I would have to, I’ve told the story before, but I would have to like, stand there and ask myself, do I want to risk my tip and make these people feel a little stupid unintentionally by informing them?

18:32
But also, if I don’t say anything, they’re going to continue thinking this.

I try to educate as much as possible, which is another thing that the nonprofit does.

So I I would rather kind of stop all that misinformation in its tracks and try to find a nice way to say it, but people just don’t know.

18:49
Yeah, they just don’t know.

They just don’t know even.

Doctors don’t know.

So how are we going to blame the general public for having these ideas when like truly oh so many medical professionals don’t even know?

So I think it’s just I’ve had these topics that would people to of do we like have to be an advocate for type one just because we have it.

19:09
And of course you don’t have to, but I think we kind of automatically take on somewhat of a responsibility, if we choose to do that or not, of letting people know the truth so that real information can be spread.

Yeah, that sounds exhausting.

19:27
I would love for you to talk about your coping strategies for diabetes burnout.

And you know, what has worked really well for you with having to live with that mental load of, you know, having diabetes or having to interact with people where maybe those interactions aren’t the most positive?

19:43
Like what are some coping strategies that have been helpful?

My #1 tip to anyone is you don’t have to have an entire community of type 1 diabetics behind you.

You don’t have to have like you don’t have to be in forums and join all these groups and platforms.

19:59
But just if you have one person who is living with type one diabetes in your life that you can talk to and vent to and know that they can fully understand the language you’re speaking.

That has been the most tremendous thing for me.

And I didn’t even mean to stumble into the community that has been created.

20:19
Since starting my platform.

But there’s so much solace in knowing that these people get it.

I was in really bad diabetes burnout this past year.

Probably.

It was like in November.

It was the worst it’s ever been.

And I was like, if I have to look at my blood sugar one more time on my phone, I was just like, the numbers were triggering to me and my partner.

20:40
I’ve had people, loved ones try to help all the time.

Of course they do.

I’ve always been very stubborn of like, you can’t do anything.

I know you want to help.

There’s literally, there’s truly nothing you can do.

I have to handle this.

I have to call the shots, literally.

I have to make all the decisions.

But my, my current partner said to me they were like, I really, I really want to help.

21:00
What can I do?

And I’m like, there’s nothing, there’s nothing you can do.

And they started following my blood sugars on the app and for one day they said for one full day, do not open that app.

And I will track your blood sugars and I will let you know if you go too high or go too low.

21:17
But know if I’m not telling you, you are fine.

Like just stop because I go crazy with that app because it like it’s just muscle memory.

It’s like social media, you know.

So I removed the app from my homepage.

It’s obviously still on my phone, but I just moved it out of my eyesight.

And for that day, I did not look at it one time.

21:36
And I felt like I could breathe for the first time in a really long time.

And I had an analogy before, like my diabetes burnout analogy this year definitely has been it like, feels like you’re in, this is a little dark, but I’m just going to be real.

21:53
It feels like you’re, for me, like treading water in the middle of an ocean.

And you have to keep treading water to survive, but you’re not swimming to shore.

There’s nowhere that you’re swimming to.

You’re not treading to stay alive with no destination insight.

22:10
There’s nowhere you can see where you’re going to get to rest your arms and legs and stop treading.

It’s kind of just like you can’t get too tired because if you do, the worst will happen.

And for that day, I felt like my arms and legs, I’m like getting emotional about it.

Finally, for the first time, they could rest.

22:26
And of course, it doesn’t solve all the problems, but it helped me so much.

And I think people are scared to ask for help and it’s hard to find ways that people can.

But it doesn’t have to be a partner.

It can be a family member or friend.

And just like ask them, hey, I’m going through a hard time.

Would you mind just, and you’ll have to not look at it the whole day, but stuff like that where you can get the burden taken off of you, even for a day, even for three hours, We’re not doing that enough.

22:50
It’s really hard to ask for help.

And the theme of diabetes too is feeling like a burden to other people.

So I think realizing that it is not a burden, the people that love us and care about us want to help.

And it’s letting them and finding ways that they can because it it really, it really does make a difference.

23:08
Wow thank you for sharing that.

That was your partner.

Sounds incredible.

Very touching story.

Just to help you not have at least one day where you’re not having to have carry that mental load of it all.

Yeah.

I can’t even imagine what that must be like.

23:25
And I’m sure your story and your experience is part of the reason why you did start your organization.

You’re Just My Type.

Can you tell us a little bit more about why you started that and what it is you guys do?

I would love to So I started You’re Just My Type in 2016.

23:43
I cannot believe it was that long ago, but it was this little side passion project I started after going to school for photojournalism and I I was like what am I going to do with my photos?

I wanted to do something big.

I like felt this calling.

I just didn’t know what was calling me and I love the story.

24:01
I met a a mom of a type one diabetic.

I was at a wedding.

It was just one of those kismet encounters and she told me that she had a type one son who was diagnosed at age 4 just like me.

She just explained to me how alone he felt and isolated he felt.

24:18
And I had been lucky growing up.

My parents started a support group where I grew up for kids with type one diabetes in the area.

So I knew other kids had it.

I went to camp every summer.

But she made me realize that people there’s people that don’t know that they’re one of us and they really do feel alone.

So when you’re just my type started, I like set out to photograph as many type 1 diabetics as I could.

24:38
And it was like a little blog.

I compared it to like my inspiration was Humans of New York.

I don’t know if you guys know that platform, of course.

So I would.

Ask all these type ones the same questions and I just started posting their photos online and I photographed everyone in person in the beginning.

This is when I realized how much I needed that, that the community that was forming as well.

24:57
But I would post their photos online, they would answer questions and then they would share it on their page.

And then we’d get more followers and then I would post someone else and they would share it on their page.

And the community just grew and it became this really amazing place where you could now look at faces instead of statistics and see how many of us were out there.

25:17
And then 2 1/2 years ago, I was a full time nanny before this started.

I realized I’m like, what is missing?

Like what, what can I do?

Where is a void that I can fill?

Like we have camp every summer, the kids do, but there’s nothing in between camp that’s 12 months that you have to wait until you can see your type one friends again.

25:37
So our original idea was to have year round events for type one girls because I’m like, that’s what I know.

I was one, that’s what I know.

Let’s stick to what I know.

And our first one we hosted was I wanted to do this like big mental health day for young girls with type one diabetes.

25:53
And it turned into this like mini conference.

We had a type 1 social worker, a type 1 behavioral therapist, a type 1 nutritionist, a type one yoga instructor, a type one artist, and they were all there.

And these girls had like this mini day of doing carb counting worksheets and cooking with a nutritionist.

26:09
They did their yoga class.

They decorated diabetes bags.

We had question and answers.

It was so beautiful.

And I posted about it and I was like, great.

I think I found my thing.

We’re going to do four of these a year.

And as soon as I posted that one, the comments of what about boys?

What about adults?

26:25
What about you?

We need this, we need this.

And I was like, you know what it did not?

That’s all it took.

I was like, you are so right.

We all need this so badly.

So the next one we did was an adult event.

And these events, they are all mental health forward.

26:40
So we always have a mental health activity.

We’ve done guided meditations, we screen movies that have to do with type one diabetes.

We have journal prompts, we do vision boards, we do affirmations, we do intention setting.

But even if we didn’t have any of those activities, just being in the same room as thirty other type 1 diabetics, and I have to remind myself that is a mental health resource in itself because I put a lot of pressure on them.

27:07
Like we have to have this many activities and we have to have mental health professional with type one.

And although that definitely enhances the events, just having a community and having that feeling of isolation and diabetes burnout, like when you don’t feel that anymore, it changes everything.

So the event, we started doing them and now we do one once a month and we rotate.

27:27
So we do, we do young girls, young boys, Co Ed adults and toddler events.

We have toddler events happening in San Diego.

There’s like a group of like 15 type, like under the age of five down there.

Yeah, it’s been the the most incredible experience.

27:43
We’re only in Southern California right now because that’s where I am.

Our goal is to expand and go national and be running in every major city as soon as possible.

That’s so cool and how can people join?

27:58
Is it like a membership or do you pay a fee to be part of the event?

Absolutely.

Not every event is 100% free to attend.

Wow that’s so cool.

We’re A501C3 so we’re donation based to keep going.

So we do work off donations, but anyone can follow us on Instagram and see the events.

28:16
We have a newsletter on our website, but yeah, there’s never any charges to attend the events.

That’s incredible, honestly.

And as I mentioned, we are doing a virtual event with your just my type, one of our dietitians, Jenny, who has type 1, she’s going to be leading that conversation about diabetes and disordered eating.

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And so please, please, please register.

You can head over to diabetesdigital.co slash event and we’ll have all the information there for you to register.

And also, Laura, let people know where they can find these events, like is there a website?

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How can they follow you on social?

You can go to ourwebsite@yourjustmytype.com.

We always post our upcoming events there, but we really live on our Instagram account, which is at yourjustmytype one.

We’re on Facebook as well, but our Instagram is where it’s at.

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If you want to see all of the type of diabetics we highlight and we post our events there too.

And all the photos from the events, it’s, it’s on the Instagram page.

Amazing.

And for the event that you all are doing, is it for people with type one?

Is it anyone?

It’s people living with type 1.

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With type one.

OK, awesome.

All right, well, make sure that you sign up for the event.

It was so lovely talking to you.

Thanks for joining us today and we’ll be in touch.

Thank you so much.

Bye.

Thanks for joining us for today’s episode.

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If you’re interested in nutrition counseling with one of our expert dietitians to help improve your pre diabetes or diabetes, visit us at diabetesdigital.co.

Also, if you found our conversation helpful, do us a favor and rate and review this podcast on iTunes, plus share with someone who might find this helpful.

30:02
You can also connect with us on Instagram at Diabetes Digital dot.

Co and TuneIn every Wednesday for practical, inclusive and culturally humble diabetes insights.

We’ll catch you later.